and the shareholders who elect these individuals allow companies to move assets to the highest form? john malone constantly spins off things shuffling paper. looking to not only grow intrinsic value, but allowing it to surface. if you just bought a basket of securities that dr. malone had over the years, you'd have compounded assets at about a 15% the last 20 to 30 years. buffett does something else, buys and holds. irene rosenfeld, i said she's going to buy cadbury, she took it, put it into a package, spun off kraft. mondelez is a fantastic asset. another example, hillshire, sarah lee, we talked about that spinning off. look at the pieces. what are the elements that are worth? hillshire is a company 120 million shares, the stock's around $25, $3 billion market cap, basically the company sells protein for breakfast, jimmy dean sausages, the sausage category, how big is it? >> might be a little fat -- >> lunch meat. joe -- >> well, it's sausage. i want it. i eat it, i want it. i'm telling you it's not all protein. this is good. >> hot dogs, joe. >> just sort of in a trance. it's sort of a relief,